Comments on: Holocaust and torture depicted in LEGO

By: legofesto

legofesto — Thu, 14 May 2009 14:00:14 +0000

HI Guys.
What an interesting and considered comment thread.

I would like to commend BB readers. Who would expect that a blog devoted to toys could host a more civil, sophisticated and considerate discussion on torture than you’ll ever find on political blogs?

Me too.

A bit of backgound; these images are recreations of photographs and/or first hand testimony where original photos do not exist. All the Abu Ghraib pieces are recreations of photos, horrific as that idea is.

The images originated on my blog here, where the context, motive and didactic are explicit. Once the images were – how should I put this? – liberated on the internet they took on a life of their own without any explanation to anchor them. This was always going to be an issue.

An ex-detainee from Guantanamo Bay, innocent and released without any conditions, used them to explain to his kids what had happened to him. So some work I would say is not child-inappropriate, but other pieces are, such as the recreation of the Rape in Mahmudiya, Iraq. Most definately not for forums where there are kids.

EnduringCold: check out the blog, there is a piece callled Israelification about such warcrimes.

As for yellow vs fleshies…. i no like fleshies, sorry.

All my work can also be found at http://www.flickr.com/photos/legofesto/ where I also post new stuff.

By: Optimystic

Optimystic — Sat, 09 May 2009 14:36:17 +0000

Hrolf: I disagree, no-one should be forced to see the truth, only have the ability. No-one should be forced to do, or see anything.

Coming to the Vig I dislike how the teeth are used for feet, although it’s besides the point.

By: RadRadio

RadRadio — Fri, 08 May 2009 16:20:39 +0000

I think if Lego is seen as an art then this is perfectly exceptable.I have been to many museums and art gatherings and most of them contained pieces that were considered inappropriate for children for some reason or another, yet they all had children looking at the pieces because it was art and that made it ok.What I’m saying is that Here Lego is considered art and should be treated as such.If parents want to let their kids on here thats their choice, it’s not like the Brothers-brick has always had kid-friendly creations and then popped out of no-where with this not-aimed-at-kids moc, no they’ve had zombies and wars and other such things so why should something that actually happened that someone wanted to share be any different?

By: Shmails

Shmails — Fri, 08 May 2009 03:36:01 +0000

Creative Anarchy – Don’t you think a child watching a school bully beating up a nerd in the hall has more effect than a picture of a LEGO creation? Sheltering children from historical facts is a mistake. Exposure combined with proper explanation and context can go much further to develop young minds than shelter and fear of what is out there to be seen.

As for the scenes themselves, they are powerful, and push the boundaries of what you can say with a building block and some creative thinking. I am glad that there are people in this world not afraid to push the envelope beyond accepted levels.

Thanks for the post Andrew, this is a very interesting debate!

By: Brickapolis

Brickapolis — Fri, 08 May 2009 02:03:19 +0000

I am glad to see this rendered in Lego. It should serve to remind all of us of the horrors of war and the poor judgment that some people have.

By: ChuckC

ChuckC — Fri, 08 May 2009 01:59:50 +0000

Hrolf: “EVERYONE, adults, and kids alike should be forced to see the truth behind the last 8 years, how wrong torture is, and how mindless wars for no real reason do not help in any way to make this country great.”

Wouldn’t forcing someone to see something be a form of oppression? Oh, nothing wrong with that.

By: Creative Anarchy

Creative Anarchy — Fri, 08 May 2009 00:50:34 +0000

Children should not be exposed to images of torture, really not even to images of lego torture. We all to often underestimate how much children absorb and comprehend and how impressionable they can be. But really the solution is to work together to make this a world where torture doesn’t happen and until we have that vingettes like this are important.

It could be my American Media exposure but the images are especially creepy as a lot of them depict scenes I haven’t seen.

By: Nolnet

Nolnet — Fri, 08 May 2009 00:23:47 +0000

@ Kaitimar: I second your opinion, but showing two people making babies? Are you kidding?
Isn’t the honorable Supreme Court of some country currently engaged in debating the issue of *gasp* One Flashed Nipple Five Years Ago? Seriously, folks, keep within the scope here ;-)

By: Kaitimar

Kaitimar — Thu, 07 May 2009 23:36:43 +0000

Yes, it’s true, missed that. Great movie anyway.
Maybe someone will make a Waltz with Bashir dio now?

By: Thanel

Thanel — Thu, 07 May 2009 23:22:41 +0000

I’m an avid NPR (American equivalent of BBC) listener and this TBB thread was along the lines of the type of discourse I hear and like there. The other day I got a window into the other side when I heard a jarring interview with radio personality Michael Savage which was the equivalent of what Will Thomas parodied above:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=103819122

The contrast is striking and makes me appreciate decent conversation all the more. Thank you all.

By: Andrew

Andrew — Thu, 07 May 2009 22:51:54 +0000

@Will Thomas: Heh heh. That’s is precisely why we have a 13-and-older policy in our Terms of Service.

I’m very happy with how cordial this discussion has been so far. A couple of people have asked me privately if I’ve had to delete any comments that violate the ToS. I’m pleased to report that that hasn’t been necessary. I thank you all for that.

By: EnduringCold

EnduringCold — Thu, 07 May 2009 22:49:32 +0000

I think that this is a very powerful depiction, and even if a child WERE to stumble across this vignette, I don’t think it’s impact would be very great, due to the lack of understanding. The other pictures, however, depicting the violence in the treatment of Iraqi prisoners is horrifying. Not in the expressive sense, for it is well built and shows the acts of evil which the prisoners went through with a resounding clarity, but it is so much more vivid and acute, unlike the Schindler’s List diorama. Not that it wasn’t good. And maybe Legofesto will also show the violence that the Palestian people in Gaza are going through with the Israelis, because that is “The Hidden Holocaust”.

By: Will Thomas

Will Thomas — Thu, 07 May 2009 22:47:33 +0000

^Just wait until a 12 year-old MOCpager comes in saying “omg guys, wth? waterboaridng isnt torture!!1 u are all liberil partizans!!!11″ Truth be told, I almost miss the flame wars of ’08. “obama will maek us a comunist country!!!11!!1″ And before I forget, the fleshie versus yellow “debate” [if you can even call it that] was over the creations by Legofesto.

By: Kaitimar

Kaitimar — Thu, 07 May 2009 22:32:09 +0000

I agree, AFOLs are actually capable of having a civilized debate on the stickiest of subjects, and I know that from personal experience.
The girl in red: I don’t really understand the whole “fleshie vs yellow” debate. Schindler’s list is in B&W, and the only color in the whole movie is that girl’s red coat. That’s why the other figs are grey. Actually, she should be gray too, except for the red coat. That way the dio would me much more accurate, as she wouldn’t have that scared face. In the film, the little girl wandering around in the mist of a nazi gathering of the Jews is pretty calm, watching everything with the innocence of a child. And that is even more chilling that if she would have been crying. And when a soldier takes her hand, she just goes with him, with the trust of an innocent child, even thou we know what will happen to her.
Schindler is watching the whole scene from the hill, and it is the little girl that moves something in him and turns him from just another war profiteer to a savior.

Abu Ghraib: Our westen culture (and all the rest as well, actually) will tolerate violence in the media to an amazing extent, but you better not show two people making babies!
I think it’s all part of a plan to make little soldiers. Must have soldiers. War is good for business (as seen in the Shindler’ list).

By: bruce n h

bruce n h — Thu, 07 May 2009 18:01:54 +0000

Well, obviously since I already blogged the Abu Ghraib scenes on VignetteBricks I feel it appropriate to post them here as well. Both the effect of these MOCs and the string of comments are very reminiscent of the discussion of Zbigniew Libera’s LEGO Concentration Camp display that used to flare up every once in a while.

Bruce